After staying at Formula 1 in Paris and Ibises all over Morocco, this was a breath of fresh air. Located a good 20 minute drive outside of Fes, Moulay Yacoub is the best buy in Morocco for me. For those that want to get away from the hustle and bustle of Morocco's cities and relax in a natural setting,surrounded by mountains,this is it. Thermal springs are the big draw here for Moroccans seeking health cures. The public bath and private spa are just down the hill (a very steep hill) from the hotel. The spa visit was great. We took a package deal for 55.00 American dollars each that consisted of 4 therapies including full body massage. The cost of the hotel was 77.00 dollars a day. This is one place I would revisit if the opportunity presented itself again .
The Moroccan Zawiyya
The Moroccan Zawiyya
Sidi Shamharush, Moulay Abdullah bin Hussein, Sidi Ali, Moulay Idriss, Sidi Musa, Moulay Bouchta, Moulay Yacoub, Lalla Fatima, Lalla Miriam...
Far too many zawiyyas to list here. And far far too complicated a subject to explain too much here.
The zawiyya is (loosely) the shrine village/city of a great man or woman, Muslim or Jew, in Morocco - he or she could have been a great leader, great healer, great community member, great warrior...
"Great" is the prerequisite character's common trait - the inhabitants of the zawiyya community are very reverent (often leaving a tithing) toward the great dead character who lays inside the tomb; some people even taking work in the zawiyya that allows them to participate in what could be called intentional communities.
Visit a zawiyya: beg them to let you in; bribe someone (if they make a stink about you not being Muslim, since they may)...let them know how you respect their traditions... I just want you to experience it...
SIMPLE RULES: When you get in - sit down. Advanced behavior is to kiss the posts of the above ground tomb. Before you sit down - put a dirham in the charity box. And before you leave, leave a little more money in the charity box...
There's more advanced rules (pm for them), but for now...
That's all you have to remember ....
Morocco: America, Jews... what Moroccans may think
"A debate which reveals a nagging bigotry"
POST: "95% of Moroccans do fully believe the propaganda they are exposed to, that the west is evil, 9/11 was a CIA / Israeli conspiracy etc. If you try discussing it with them, none will admit that Israel has a legitimate right to survive like any other country on earth..."
My response: Your statement is incendiary (which is what I like about it)
It's also embarrasingly and egregiously wrong. (which is what I don't like about it)
The 95 percent thing... Boo, it would make a gorilla blush*. Now, you found your way on to the forum. Find your way on to the wagon of "google" searching and learn about Morocco's relation to Israel.
Cleaning up after a poster's 'poopy pants', should be left to mommy - but obviously you found the password to her computer. **
America as an independent nation was first recognized by Morocco. Warm relations between the two have existed for years. Trust me, boo. If they thought the west was actually evil, they'd do something about it. And then it's time to lift anchor on Riadsville, MA.
Quasi-Zionist-trash-posts go under the radar better with countries closer to the Middle East, if you want to salvage and cut-and-paste your above post to more success.
To other interested readers with functionally frontal lobes: Fes (for one) had a substantial jewish community - one the residents here miss and get quite nostalgic for. Muslim residents here even have occasionally changed their names to Jewish ones because of their respected business and organizational skills. My great friend R Kohen - though born a Moroccan Muslim - has never thought to change his name to a conspiciously Muslim one, preferring a Jewish one.
Moulay Yacoub, the famous Saint of the more famous hot spring bath outside Fes, was a Jew. Muslims cry "Tbrani (or Daweenee) Moulay Yacoub!" asking for healing. And local support for that place ain't droppin', dawg. There are many other Jewish saints that continue to be revered in Morocco.
Did I mention you are wrong? You're wrong.
*I don't really know that.
"the debate continues"
POST; It is very interesting how none of the three replies was able to avoid personal attacks against me. [name deleted] you can kiss my ass and I am not the person you are hallucinating I am. What is the problem with you people?
At least one tried to give facts, but not dispel my impression about the opinion of average Moroccans . Just ask 10 random working class Moroccans - what they think about 9/11 or about Israel. Do not ask the hotel or souvenir shop owners who will say what they think will please you.
There's certainly nothing personal about saying someone is wrong. I saw [name deleted] picture after I posted the first time and felt like crap cuz he looks like a cool chap, maybe kind and well travelled and whatnot. I imagined kissing his ass*, however, and even though that missive wasn't directed at me, I sobered up and remembered: he's wrong.
And [name deleted], you know that I kinda dig ya, boo. So - DO promote Marrakesh and places where English gets you everywhere and DON'T imagine you have too much more than a clue what 'most/many' Moroccans think or feel. I live here and, try as I may, can't manage to pigeonhole anybody. Some Riffian who spends his time commuting from a variety or jobs and spare times it growing the green stuff as a way to feed his family in Taza: you simply don't know, so you should be quiet. And so, for your sloppy generalizing about Moroccan attitudes - you are wrong.
We are being watched, read, cut-and-pasted - and so I am compelled to not allow stupid phony stats that someone pulls out of their unkissed ass go unchallenged.
[name deleted], I've tried the ten people experiment during the fast (when I thought the ciggie deprivation could loosen a few crytpo-antisemites tongues) - no luck. So far, I can't find anyone yet that thinks "that the west is evil, 9/11 was a CIA / Israeli conspiracy etc. If you try discussing it with them, none will admit that Israel has a legitimate right to survive like any other country on earth." I will keep on this one. I got your upper back,[name deleted].
The original poster: Looks like it's tougher going on these threads than Morocco, doannit? I will answer again simply: Morocco is quite safe for travellers.
"and rages on..."
POST: JamalMorelli, if you really want to look at opinion polls, just use google. You can find quite a few from the last years. I found one that says that "92 % of Moroccans don't like Jews". Another one says that "only 11% of Moroccans approve of the US politics", and the main point of criticism was that "the USA should stop supporting Israel". Both of those numbers are very close to the 9/10 of anti-Israel and anti-US sentiment that I mentioned. So, I am trying to bring an element of fact into this, not wishful thinking.
As a tourism provider you obviously have a need to paint your country in the best light, but with all that vulgar language you are doing yourself a great disservice. Who has asked you to do any "ass kissing - your words? There is no excuse for this vulgarity and lack of respect when not even the facts are on your side.
Your search - "Moroccans don't like Jews" - did not match any documents.
Your search - "only 11% of Moroccans approve of the US politics" - did not match any documents.
Couldn't find it. Giving you a wider net I started typing things like 11 and Morocco. Found this.
"Morocco was among the first Arab and Islamic states to denounce the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks in the United States and declare solidarity with the American people in the war against terror. Morocco has seen its own terrorism at home as well. On May 16, 2003, Moroccan suicide bombers simultaneously attacked five sites in Casablanca, killing more than 40 people and wounding over 100. More than a million people subsequently demonstrated to condemn the attacks."
Help me with those facts of yours, [name deleted]. Your commitment to truth will ensure that we all become enlightened as to the wide spread anti-semitism you have Moroccans to be harboring.
Re: Me. Tourism provider. Boo, tourism's taking a nose dive in the Maghreb if they're leavin' that gig to me. I am a freak. Full stop. My vulgar language is deliberately worn like a yellow flag of quarantine that not only do I NOT have the facts but that the little I DO know is not going to find it's way out my ass* and on to a page about an entire country.
[name deleted] speaks: "If you try discussing it with them, none will admit that Israel has a legitimate right to survive like any other country on earth. "
*I changed it to my ass, now. Tourism provider, ya dig.
"So, what's the score...?"
Burning Question Link
"VISITING JEWISH MOROCCO - by Rick Gold"
"In a short visit to Morocco, the importance that Jews once played in the country is not readily apparent. Much of Jewish Morocco is hidden from view, but with the right guide, a tourist can gain a rich understanding not only of the role of Jews in Moroccan society, but also of the fascinating role of Moroccan Jews in the Jewish world. Jews and Arabs lived a symbiotic existence until the middle of the twentieth century. Moroccan kings protected the Jews from harm and helped some of them develop the wealth that sustained the monarchy for many years. Today, no more than 5,000 Jews remain, compared to 300,000 in 1950. I lived in Morocco from 1988-1992, built a home there and have had the opportunity to visit dozens of Jewish communities and hundred of Jewish sites throughout the country..."
"This is an upcoming and coming page..."
This page..addressing pressing travel concerns about the feelings of Moroccans towards Americans, the Jews and Westernism in general.
"Where is alot of the hate coming from?"
Sadly, the most vocifereous anti-Israel comments I have heard are not coming from a largely Muslim country like Morocco. I have the worst things coming from America. Because of this, it is wrongly deduced that Muslims in other countries must feel this way or worse.
Here is a poster from the United States:
This is disheartening to say the least. It's a real downer to learn that Judaism is in fact represented by the Israeli government. The IDF and that violence and oppression is in fact the mainstream.
If this is the case then Israel needs to be removed from existence and Judaism seen for what it is. Exclusive, violent and racist.
Here was my response:
Back to school, [poster's name deleted] -
[poster's name deleted], without the children of Israel we have a very small book (with
the hopeful assumption you are Muslim and not a low-level troll). A very
very small book. Got that? There's your Islam 100 for slow-learners.
The children of the book and their prophets (as well as ours) make up
the largest part of the book, so we talk about them with Respect even if
members of their population appear to be really pushing the envelope as
regards to their political and military power.
This is from the Quran Al Karim, sura the Spider
46 And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way)
that is better, save with such of them as do wrong;
and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto
us and revealed unto you; our Allah and your Allah is One, and unto Him
Sadaqallah moulana aDeem
The Forest for the Trees
We certainly don't want to be judging any countries because of their
governments behavior - it is naive, invites a bigoted judgement in kind,
and falsely implies a great deal more civic control over military/industrial
might than what is available to disenfranchised or just lazy groups.
A Similar Naive Judgement on America:
Bin Laden's assessment of US democracy was one such naivety - with him
in his speeches implying that because our government was sitting on the
fence or active in atrocities that 'we' as Americans had voted for it. Any
local activist in a US neighborhood whose safety is threatened by the
Army Corps of Engineers will tell you - there are bigger engines that pull
the train than your vote.
Similar Disastrous Naive Judgements have been made on Islam -
And now thousands upon thousands are dead and will continue to die.
It's easy to kill if our enemies become one-dimensional "Exclusive, violent
If we are to break the spell of hypnotizing rage against the Other, here's a
baby step to take:
Refrain from Vulgar, Violent Judgements.
best photo I could get...
The Barren Countryside, Sheep Grazing
View From The Courtyard
Marrakech or Fes?
Which is a better home base for a week? I want to do some day trips, but am flexible about choosing between the two cities. Advice?
RE: Marrakech or Fes?
I'm partial to Fes, because I find the city to be more authentic and interesting than Marrakesh, but Marrakesh is in a beautiful setting and does offer quite a bit to do on the side. Here are some of the side trips for both that I can think of off the top of my head
The Gouffre de Friouato, the largest cavern in North Africa
Ifrane, Azrou, Sefrou and the Cedar Forests
Smaller Berber villages in the mid-atlas
Meknes and Roman Ruins of Volubilis
The spa at Moulay Yacoub
Chefchouen (a bit far but doable as a day trip with your own transport)
Villages around the Tiz n Test and Tizi n Tichka
I would choose Fes for authenticity and slightly fewer tourists and Marrakesh for hip, and more western.
RE: Marrakech or Fes?
Agree with above. We went for the first time in December, did not intend to go to Fes at first, but very glad we did. I actually preferred it to Marrakech, against my earlier instincts. It felt more laid-back (on 24/25th Dec anyway) more authentic (whatever that may mean), had fewer revving mopeds and even though my daughter and I were ill we enjoyed just being there and not having boxes to tick (didn't do that in M'kech either but felt more hassled). I would probably choose Fes as a base next time because I would prefer the trips out from there than those available from Marrakech.
Wish I was going again! Have fun.
RE: Marrakech or Fes?
I think this is entirely a matter of taste. The answer is both. One now, one later!
RE: Marrakech or Fes?
both a excellent..but Fes did it for me, just more to see and a little bit more off the beaten track.
here is a good photo link for Fes and the High Atlas you can check out..
RE: RE: Marrakech or Fes?
Here is a Virtual Tourist link to my Fes page
I also appreciate Marrakesh with it's wild varieties of tourist and moped life.