Tantara Country Hotel

Nova Lane, Middleton, Pickering, YO18 8PN, United Kingdom
Tantara Country Hotel
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Forum Posts

Cawthorne Roman Camp and village/settlement

by sirgaw

Posting here on the off chance that someone on this list may have some knowledge of the Cawthorne Roman Camp(s) and hopefully any information on the settlement or maybe village of Cawthorne near Pickering (Not the Cawthorne near Barnsley).

Judging from the Domesday (sometimes incorrectly called Doomsday) Book there must have been some type of settlement at Cawthorne, as the area was listed in the Domesday Book under the heading of Calthorn(e) and may have had a population of 500 going from the number of landholders - and this population number is purely a guess.

Believe me I have searched on the net for anything and have come up zero.

Any help greatly appreciated, thanks,

David in Australia

Re: Cawthorne Roman Camp and village/settlement

by doodybee

hi try this link

http://pastscape.english-heritage.org.uk/events.aspx?a=0&hob_id=60589&pnt=y

Re: Cawthorne Roman Camp and village/settlement

by gildapaolina

...Here another link, this roman camp seems to be part of Moors National Park:

http://www.yorkshiremoorsandcoast.com/thedms.aspx?dms=13&venue=1721489

Hope it could help
Gil

Re: Cawthorne Roman Camp and village/settlement

by leics

It's a fascinating place. The camps (there are more than one) are thought to be training camps i.e. where new recruits practised the formal, rigd way of setting up a camp. It's set within a forested area, and is a most plesant place to explore.

Photos and info here:

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5392

http://www.roman-britain.org/places/cawthorn.htm

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.1141

It is not at all unusual for settlements noted in Domesday to have disappeared. In fact, this is so common in the UK that they have their own abbreviation: DMVs (deserted Medieval villages). Some ceased to exist because of the ravages of the Black Death, some because making a living there just became impossible, many were emptied deliberately by Medieval landowners who wished to use the land for sheep-grazing (wool was a major and profitable product for a substantial length of time), some were emptied as a result of the Enclosure Act. Wool was produced in Yorkshire: it may well be that Cawthorne was emptied on the order of the landowners.

Wharram Percy is perhaps the most famous and best-investogated of Yorkshire's DMVs. It gradually died, but the sheep industry mentioned above finally 'killed' it around 1500.

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.1227

You may find some relevant information on the N Yorks archives site:

http://www.northyorks.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=3134

and if you email them (contact link at top of page) I'm sure they will be able to help, if only to point you in the right direction for further contacts.

Re: Cawthorne Roman Camp and village/settlement

by SallyM

Here's another link - to the online version of the Victoria County History for Yorkshire, which gives some details of the history of the manor of Cawthorne.

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=64693&strquery=Cawthorne

Re: Cawthorne Roman Camp and village/settlement

by sirgaw

You guys are amazing - THANK YOU.

I thought maybe the village of Cawthorne may have gone from the map because of the Black Death, but hadnt thought of the wool aspect. Now I'll get busy with all those links and do some more research.

Seems my past was influenced by the Vikings and I may be a throw back as I love rollmops and danish blue cheese - the horned helmet on my pp is not just for looks - LOL. I may have to change my screen name to SirCaw.

Thanks again and if you happen to come across any more, please let me know.

David

Re: Cawthorne Roman Camp and village/settlement

by leics

Be careful with your researches, because there is another Cawthorne in Yorkshire. It's in West Yorkshire, just south of Barnsley, and many of the internet links for 'Cawthorne' refer to it rather than the one near Pickering.

You do know the Viking horned helmets are a complete fabrication, don't you?
:-))

Re: Cawthorne Roman Camp and village/settlement

by leics

Sorry, west of Barnsley.

Many Vikings came from the southern part of what is now Sweden/Norway. Some fascinating DNA research on inhabitants of Orkney came up with a very strong link with inhabitants of that area.

http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/vikingorkney/genetics.htm

Re: Cawthorne Roman Camp and village/settlement

by sirgaw

Thanks leics - yes I knew of the Cawthorne near Barnsley, in fact I've read most of the http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/History_of_Cawthorne written in 1882. That village is certainly "alive and kicking."

Also knew the horned helmet was b/s and as one internet site has suggested, they would have been an OH&S hazard in those small ships. The one that I'm wearing on my pp I borrowed in a shop in Toledo, Spain, and believe me, it was soooooo heavy. In another shop I overheard a US gentleman saying to his son, "Hey don't you need a new bike helmet?"

Interesting how towns and villages "die" and we have many examples of "ghost towns" in Australia, but that was mostly because a nearby mine ran out of the goodies they were digging up. In some cases settlements were established because the first into an area went there when times were good and plenty of rain, then the normal drought conditions returned and they were just abandonded and allowed to rot.

Great stuff for the history buffs to ponder over.

Re: Cawthorne Roman Camp and village/settlement

by doodybee

hate to rain on your parade but the Cawthorne of today is full of "incomers" who have consistently over the years sent the prices of housing there so high the poor "villagers" are having to move out away from their roots to be able to afford any kind of life
theres no community there anymore as the most of people who inhabit the place are so far up their own arses they'd not spit on you if you were on fire
believe it - i have first hand of this

i was the warden for elderly services in the village for 5 years and you could be everybodys best friend in church on the sunday and if you passed them in the street on the monday the would look at you as though you were something they had trodden in

most of the remaining "village families" were totally different though but were dismayed at the way things had turned out

Cawthorne is a manufactured place built on the fact that the old pretty houses were up for the taking and the ordinary villages couldn't afford them

sorry for ranting but its true

Re: Cawthorne Roman Camp and village/settlement

by leics

Which Cawthorne were you a warden in? The Barnsley one or the one near Pickering?

Re: Cawthorne Roman Camp and village/settlement

by doodybee

barnsley leics

Re: Cawthorne Roman Camp and village/settlement

by leics

O, thought so. I didn't recall the one near Pickering being big enough to have care homes. Actually, I don't recall it being a village as such ..I have the impession there were perhaps one or two isolated houses and a fram or two in the immediate vicinity. I could be wrong though: it's been some years.

It's a bit weird, because the camps are most definitely 'Cawthorne' but the 'village', if it exists, seems to be called 'Cawthorn' sometimes. The one near Barnsley is always called 'Cawthorne'.

Re: Cawthorne Roman Camp and village/settlement

by sirgaw

leics wrote:

"It's a bit weird, because the camps are most definitely 'Cawthorne' but the 'village', if it exists, seems to be called 'Cawthorn' sometimes. The one near Barnsley is always called 'Cawthorne'."

My name is derived from one of the 2 Cawthorne's and all my life I've been battling with the "e" - post comes to me with an e on the end all the time. My family name is a "no e thanks" mob.

If you're interested in seeing examples of English handwriting from the period 1500 - 1700, have a look at http://www.english.cam.ac.uk/ceres/ehoc/index.html and you'll see the problems that researchers have trying to unravel records. Wow has the English language changed over the years.

Re: Cawthorne Roman Camp and village/settlement

by leics

It's still changing. It's changed substantially within my lifetime.

It's not just the handwriting that is the problem. There was no absolutely 'right' way of spelling anything, especially names, for many, many centuries (right up to Victorian times). Earlier, those few who could actually write (and thus created the documentation) were not necessarily especially literate. My own surname (traced to 1569) has a huge number of variations.

How you spell your name is entirely irrelevant if you live in a largely non-literate society, and the UK was largely non-literate right up to the late Victrian era.

Unless your ancestors were aristocracy (i.e. land-owners) or famous criminals it is almost impossible to trace back further than the 16th century, because birth/death/marriage records were simply not kept (and many have been lost, of course). Ordinary folk's details just don't appear earlier on.

Travel Tips for Pickering

Bonio's visit to Pickering

by bonio

"A one night visit."

Tickets for the 1st Pickering Folk Festival enticed to visit for the first time in around fifteen years.
Festival a wash out, I'll comment on that later but managed a visit to the North Yorks moors railway, explored the town, sampled the real ale in a couple of pubs and some comfortable accomodation to report on.

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